[Discussion] Couldn't finish the game, think the story is pretty boring and lackluster
2025.01.19 19:04 Southern_Archer_9310 [Discussion] Couldn't finish the game, think the story is pretty boring and lackluster
Please y'all, no pitchforks and mean stuff, I just wanna have a discussion since I didn't really see anyone discuss the points that I didn't like about the game/story.
Plainly put, I truly do not understand why this game is hailed as such a miracle when it comes to the story, it being extremely simple, boring and almost nonsensical. As a bit of background I LOVE story games, played several. Also, I don't even have problems with slow gameplay either, hell I even love Death Stranding, so it's not about the game being "slow-paced".
So, my playthrough (which was my first ever, never even seen or played rdr1) stopped when the gang reaches Guarma and I do know the ending of the game now, and most of the story beats that happen until then, but I'll talk about what I've played through. Tried to finish it twice, and the gameplay was alright but I just couldn't suffer another horse ride for 10 minutes while dialogue of no value plays in the background.
Why does anyone follow Dutch? I am genuinely without an answer and yes he created the gang, yes he inspires them, experience, charm, promises, etc and there is absolutely no reason to NOT follow him at the beginning. But literally within the first chapter you see him make so many idiotic choices that land the gang in peril more than once and it starts right off the bat with robbing Leviticus Cornwall. Ok he didn't know, fine, after the agents find you, he puts Arthur and the others to work with the Rhodes police people to steal the so called gold and get rich even though both Arthur and Hosea scream about lying LOW which he should have done twice by now. I've seen so many people talking about how deep he is...no? His only plot point is saying "We need money, Arthur trust me, you're my son." Yes if it were to happen once, it would give nuance because you can see the manipulation I guess, but he does that 5+ times and it gets tiring. Besides his obvious shit takes on robbery targets, he also accepts people like Micah into the gang and at that point you reap what you sow. He never gets challenged and especially after Hosea dies I truly do not get how nobody questions him about his decisions. Loyalty is important, yes, but everyone can see how mad hes turning and I think what does it for me is that you don't really see him turn? What I mean is that of course Micah corrupts him, the deaths, lifestyle, ideas shape him to become somewhat mad in the end, but there is no real scene where you can point to and say "yes, that's why he's changing." Even when Hosea dies, it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone, you were hunted and you are out robbing banks near the people that are hunting you when you already have enough money to lie low. Charisma and charm only gets you so far, at that point the gang is just stupid. Charm and charisma only get you so far, results need to be shown. Even though he has lead the gang successfully so far, he keeps failing multiple times in a row and nobody cares.
Micah, I don't even have much to say other than, you can see he is the villain from the first 10 hours. He never does anything redeeming or makes you think that he can change. He literally never does anything different, he doesn't evolve in any way. So when you see Dutch accepting his nonsense it just makes him (D) look even more stupid. You know hes gonna be the villain but you gotta play so many more hours to prove it. It doesn't make it compelling at all. He's not the only villain, aye, but a pretty central one regardless. He's evil, manipulative, down right cartoony sometimes, and everybody hates him and calls him out for being a snake, but nobody does anything about it. And the way he addresses Dutch, I don't know if I should blame this on the writing or voice direction or whether it is intentional but you can HEAR how disingenuous he is and Dutch eats it up because he is somehow getting corrupted by him.
Arthur pisses me off on an internal level. Okay, moan about killing innocents, but also murder a whole town? Why not. Moan about Dutch putting people in danger, but also following his every word? Why not. Moan about Micah being a snake and betraying the gang, but doing nothing about it? Sure. He does absolutely nothing and is just a dog for Dutch to send him to bring money for the gang. Every time he begins to question Dutch, he gets hit with "Oh son...please..." and even if he doesn't buy it, he leaves the conversation and is like "yeah, I'll do what you ask anyway." Even when Dutch leaves him dead to rights in the warehouse, HE STILL doesn't confront him and just lets it slide. I can get him being not sure or conflicted but at this point you are stupid, the proof is in front of you and you can easily link it to all the bad stuff that has happened in the past few months. He is also extremely blank as a character. I KNOW this is a hot take believe me, but up until where I played, 99% of the time when a character asks Arthur about his opinion on something he just goes "Oh well I don't think, so doesn't matter" or "Oh, I leave this type of stuff to smarter people." I agree he has layers regarding his conflicts about crime but again how is that relevant when he still agrees to kill and rob people while doing nothing against it. He also calls people out multiple times about being stupid or saying how something is bad/wrong, but it doesn't matter because he just goes along with it anyway. Same with Dutch, conflict about Dutch changing, doing absolutely nothing about it. Only in the final few hours you see him actually taking initiative.
Have a few thoughts about the other characters as well, but to be honest I did like a lot of the supporting cast and strangers you meet. Its just that at some point going back to do main mission stories became a chore because all it would be was a 10 minute horse ride about how Arthur is sick of it while they are on the way to rob somebody. Or John being a bad father for the 100th time. Also, the mission design itself was poor. Because when you get to Rhodes so many missions have you just walking around, riding your horse, and talking to people. Again, all that fine, but it comes so out of nowhere and its spent on characters that you never see again, and you don't even spend that much time with them in the first place to warrant a larger section.
And because of the fact that so many characters make illogical choices, it soured the desire to finish the story honestly. And it turns out I was about 80% correct on how I thought it would end. Because when the gang started to drop like flies, you could see where it was going. Not only that, but yeah, the first couple of deaths had me shocked but afterwards it just became more of "well what did you expect? like I have no sympathy."
So yeah, lemme know if you have a different view :))
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2025.01.19 19:04 Carminoculus Did Sauron get more respect from Tolkien than other major evil figures (Morgoth, Saruman)?
I have the definite sense this is the case... mostly I'm asking if you think it's intentional or an accident of drama / dramatic pacing.
Morgoth and Saruman are repeatedly "outed" as cowardly and kind of pathetic.
Sauron is often evil, but never shown as quite as despicable. Even when defeated (as by Luthien and Huan) he gets more respect than the humiliation heaped on the others. At the end of Lord of the Rings, he is still malicious and defiant, but not cowardly (like Morgoth) or ambivalent and hollow (like Saruman).
He is also the only one Tolkien implies has relatively sincere wishes to beg for pardon after the War of Wrath, though it didn't stick.
And when he does do cunning or deceitful evil, it feels... grander? The downfall of Numenor, the tricking of the elven-smiths, these are feats of wit Morgoth seems incapable of. Morgoth's deception boils to begging and grovelling at the feet of the Valar and counting on their pity.
Did Tolkien tap some more archetypal figure of evil in Sauron than in the others? Probably. He certainly does less moralizing at Sauron's expense, in the sense of Sauron feeling more like the enemy in a fairytale and less didactic about human weakness.
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As above
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